Tuesday, July 11, 2006

Russian Women Want To Meet YOU

If anything happened to my significant other I’d never date again, because I’m not giving up baby-back ribs for anybody. Check out this quote from an article about a bunch of guys discussing the women they’d just gone out with:

“Well, I took out a money girl,” he confessed. They had gone to T.G.I. Friday’s, a popular date venue . . . for her main course she had made what everyone in the group agreed was the distinctly unfeminine choice of ribs.

These guys are a hell of a lot pickier than any man I’ve ever dated. And did I forget to mention they’re Americans searching for mail-order brides in the Ukraine?

“These are not American women,” our guide was telling us. “They do not care about your age, looks, or money. And you are not going to have to talk to them for half an hour and then have your testicles handed back to you! Let me tell you: over here, you’re the commodity; you’re the piece of meat. I’ve lived in St. Petersburg for two years, and I wouldn’t date an American woman right now if you paid me!”

Guys like being called “a piece of meat?” Interesting. Must be one of those "Mars-Venus" difference things I keep hearing about. However, these guys plan to be very domineering, take-charge, in-control slabs of manly Martian meat. Here’s what the various foreign-bride services all have in common:

Wherever the women come from, such websites as A Special Lady, Chance for Love, and Latin Love Search tout their traditional values, their submissiveness, their willingness to put husband and family ahead of themselves.

This attracts its share of creepy sociopaths, of course, though not all the guys fell into that category. But according to the author, there were certain traits they all shared:

Every one of the men I spoke with said they planned to restrict their future wife’s involvement in their finances, and radically so. “You don’t ever let them touch your money, bottom line,” said one, to vigorous agreement from the rest of the table. “Set them up with their checking account that they use to pay all of the household supplies. You cover the core of the mortgages and the car and everything else. Never give them joint access.” When I remarked that the arrangement sounded more like an employer/employee relationship than a marriage, the group went a little quiet, and I suddenly found myself being accused of cultural intolerance—this at a table where “bluegums” appeared to be a perfectly unobjectionable way of referring to African Americans.

I actually don’t blame the guys for not wanting joint accounts in this situation. When a marriage is basically a business transaction it’s best to treat your finances that way, too. But a lot of these guys sound like they’d have the same attitude even with American women (which may have something to do with their wife-hunting in Asia):

[One man] told me he wanted a genuine partner, but with the caveat that on the big issues—house buying, for example—he must be in charge, for the good of them both. “A ship cannot have two captains,” he insisted. When I suggested that he and his hypothetical spouse might eliminate the need for a “captain” by simply shopping for a house they both liked, he went silent for a moment before he managed both to concede my point and to reframe it entirely: “Actually, that’s an important thing you just said, because for a woman, she would take a lot of pride in her house. The kitchen area, the living-room area, the entertainment area, she’s got to be compatible with that. So that’s something I would gladly defer to a woman on.”

Another thing the guys all share in common is a belief that we American women have it a lot better than we do. As their guide-pep coach told them at the beginning of their tour:

“Now, take everything you know about dating and throw it away. After a few days, you guys are going to become like American women! A woman you would have killed to have lunch with back in the U.S., she’ll be wanting to go out with you, but you’ll start noticing little faults—her ankles are too big, you don’t like the shape of her earlobes. And you will throw her back, because you have so many choices.”

20 Comments:

Anonymous TC said...

Too bad for them, most american women seem to be on some sort of seed N feed program!

Give me your seed so I can have MY children!

Send lots and lots and lots of money so I can feed them!


So far worst thing about the russian brides is making sure they are indeed single! Had a friend go over and meet one, she was sleeping with her husband! STILL! Imagine that!?

He did manage to find himself a real keeper though. Amazing the difference in attitude between them and the spoiled provledged american primadonna's!

11:37 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Though it's easy to ridicule these types, I find it rather sad. Obviously the men are so lonely and insecure, they can't find someone who works for them. The women must be more than a little deperate.

It's just sad.

2:33 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"And you will throw her back, because you have so many choices."

Good, give the users, jerks, sadists, sociopaths, and losers a reason to stay out of my way. I thank them for avoiding my unshapely earlobes. From the remaining pool, I have a better chance of finding a man who sees me as something more than a spooge container with just enough brains to cook, clean, and steal his cash.

8:40 AM  
Anonymous mediageek said...

Jesus Christ.

What a bunch of fucking imbeciles.

9:51 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"And you will throw her back, because you have so many choices."
then
" I thank them for avoiding my unshapely earlobes. "

Unshapely earlobes? Actually, in taoist chikung practice, large earlobes are prized as they signify a large reserve of adrenal qi. Then again, not knowing what makes them unshapely, who knows.

That said, what the guy is obviously doing is pandering to them as that's what they feel has been done to them in the past. The attitude is clear with the subsequent post.. What a bunch of fucking imbeciles

Actually, they're only imbeciles if they're being taken for money or something. They're a bunch of oddball people who are searching for someone to match their idea of what they need. They're combined with a bunch of people who are searching for, apparantly, some measure of economic or personal freedom and are willing, apparantly, to sacrifice a fair bit of it to get thiers.

No, it doesn't match what I believe should be, but I guess if it works for them and no involuntary servitude is involved, who am I to object? Calling them names just because they're doing what they're doing with some other consenting adult is no more productive than doing so to a homosexual person (in some people's minds, perhaps the previously mentioned meadow/prarie muffins, there's a more extreme measure of 'yecch' involved with homosexuality than mail order bridetrons...it's a personal judgement issue). Therefore, as I previously said, it's just sad, not something to get yourself worked up about.

That said, personally there's no way in hell my daughters (I have two) are going to be so needy, and no way my son would want such subhuman level development in a partner, if I have anything to do with it. I just don't think we should rush to judgement of those who seem to have no other way, or at least believe they have no other way.

10:13 AM  
Anonymous mediageek said...

1.) I'm a dude.
2.) A fairly introverted, nerdy one at that.

3.) These guys aren't looking for some sort of transcendental "you complete me" relationship. They're looking for a woman who's of a level of attractiveness that they could not hope to land here in the US, who will do the dishes, polish their knob, and possibly (God save us all) breed with them.

As a libertarian, I certainly don't condone governmental intervention in this racket. *takes a drink*

But that doesn't mean I should refrain from mocking these asocial losers for attempting to take advantage of a bunch of women who live in some 2nd World backwater.

You don't find love by hanging out in a nightclub with women young enough to be your daughter, with whom you don't even share a common language, and who are only there because their current situation just sucks beyond comprehension.

10:23 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

But that doesn't mean I should refrain from mocking these asocial losers for attempting to take advantage of a bunch of women who live in some 2nd World backwater.

Why mock the losers? Hasn't life already done enough of that? (Like the girl who broke out in uncontrollable, hysterical laughter when he asked or the prom? Or the one who did same the first time he dropped trou?)

As a libertarian, you should know that there's nothing wrong with buying something that you can't persuade other people to give to you. (Sex, companionship, etc. etc.)

11:13 AM  
Anonymous mediageek said...

"Why mock the losers? "

Because it's fun.

"(Like the girl who broke out in uncontrollable, hysterical laughter when he asked or the prom? Or the one who did same the first time he dropped trou?)"

Aww w w w. My heart freakin' bleeds. You say that like I've never had my widdle feelings hurt by a mean ol' girl.

"As a libertarian, you should know that there's nothing wrong with buying something that you can't persuade other people to give to you. (Sex, companionship, etc. etc.)"

You did see where I noted in my previous post that even though I think the whole concept is lame and more than a bit creepy that I still nonetheless don't believe it should be regulated by a government, right?

12:12 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I still nonetheless don't believe it should be regulated by a government, right?

Damn, someone's supposed to drink, but I can't remember who.

1:26 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

... a lot of these guys sound like they’d have the same attitude even with American women (which may have something to do with their wife-hunting in Asia

Maybe this odd aversion to letting females anywhere close to our finances has to do with males' typical experiences with US females? That's sure true of me, if you want marriage without a prenup you'd better have more than 4X my total assets.

5:10 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Same anonymous with the unshapely earlobes. (Small. And a slight adrenal insufficuency so maybe the Chinese are on to something, eh?)

Look, I was in an abusive marriage in which the jerk stole all my money and counted the change when I got back from grocery shopping. I threw out another bum who couldn't so much as get a part-time job while he was a student to help me with the rent and bills.

But I hope to die before I am so desperate that I go to some foreign country for a guy who will be so subservient that he won't touch my money and won't say anything but "Yes, Dear."

And the situation is no different because I'm a chick. Healthy, worthy men are not threatened by healthy, worthy women.

8:13 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

No, different anon., and it has nothing to do with assertive females, that's not the problem until it comes to the assertion that my money's not mine. Here, read this:

http://www.john-ross.net/maureen.htm

you'll hate it, but you might learn why men feel the way we do...

9:06 AM  
Blogger Jennifer said...

I've dated a couple of asshole guys in my time, but I never assumed "well, since these two men are assholes it follows that all men are assholes." Too bad the men in this story can't perform the same equations in their head.

As for the commenter who had a girl laugh at him when he asked her to prom -- yes, that was terribly rude of her. But the thing is, I too was very unpopular in high school. Guess what? I got over it within a week of graduation, and I damn sure don't hold it against the men I see today.

As for the last paragraph I quoted in the post--yes, wife-shoppers, tell yourself that it's your earlobes or ankles, not your personality, that keeps the women away in droves. Gee, what American woman wouldn't want a man whose feminine ideal is a submissive, oversexed June Cleaver who never handles money on her own?

10:11 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

http://www.john-ross.net/maureen.htm

you'll hate it, but you might learn why men feel the way we do...


[Anon 1, 3, and 5 here....might have to actually create an identity at this rate]

Interesting read, not conciously what I believe is going on based on my own world experience (I'm male, 42, and have my own similar views based on experiences with redheads as referenced in the above article...comments for another time). However, I could see it as a basis of attraction in general. Then again, his discussion, which is obviously his rant based on his personal views, is perhaps skewed by what he's been taught and learned as to what constitutes beauty which we're all subject to.

Jennifer, your view in regards to you not blaming all men is somewhat skewed, as my view of the "child choice" aspect is, by gender. Since the 70's, there has been a huge effort to de-male our view of what is good and just and right with the world, and substitute not equality, but a feminine model. This is understandable, despite the title of Susan Faloudi's(sp? It's too close to "FoulOdor" to me to take seriously, unfortunately) book, as the real backlash is the original one against males due to the issues which bred the feminist movement initially. There is some recognition of that at this point, Cathy Young is pretty good at pointing such things out, which will cause some normalizing, but it's still pretty much if you're white, and male, and god forbid somewhat successful, you're automatically an evil power hungry demon in today's world.

It's understandable, at least to me, that these men get personally rejected, then get rejected by the public, and extrapolate this rejection as coming from all women. You, as a woman, though not popular in high school by your statement may feel the effects of some lingering issues which bred feminism. You also get a society which is much more affirming towards women, which these guys lack as what is coming out generally in public discourse is antimale. While I don't know how old you are, assuming that it's a recent picture avatar in relative terms you look like you grew up in that era.

Side note for Earlobes Anon, small variety: As for earlobes and the more general view of the universe, the Chinese are on to a lot of things. Some of the chi kung stuff causes one to experience stuff which most people don't believe is physically possible. I don't believe it, given that I've got three college degrees all in technical / mathematics / engineering / business areas, and I've lived it. Check out some of Mantak Chia's books, and silly as they read try some of the stuff. Kind of wild. Might help the adrenal problems, I've had it and seen it work on other things.

6:43 AM  
Blogger Jennifer said...

You, as a woman, though not popular in high school by your statement may feel the effects of some lingering issues which bred feminism. You also get a society which is much more affirming towards women, which these guys lack as what is coming out generally in public discourse is antimale.

That picture of me was taken July 4. Talking specifically about dating and romance issues, I disagree that I personally benefit by society's "affirmation" of women, because that really only applies to a certain type of woman, who wants to be or is a mother, and thinks "do it for the children" is an unanswerable argument in political debates.

Furthermore, the men in the story seem to think (based on comments like "YOU get to be the piece of meat here") that in America, the men are the only ones who have ever had problems on the dating front.

I came of age in the 80s, but I was down South, which still had a lot of lingering anti-woman bias. I can't even count the number of incidents where men just automatically assumed that I must be some fluffy useless li'l thang, and if ever I say something intelligent it must be a man who thought of it for me. Oh, and if ever anything made me angry it must be because Ah done needed a man, not because I had, you know, a legitimate reason to be angry.

7:40 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Interesting perceptions. I came of age in the early 80's also, but in the Northwest (before all the SoCal people moved up). When in the military, I spent some time in Miss, where I did see the lingering "Ole South" mentality though what I saw was primarily racial and not gender based.

However, when you look at public discourse, schools, teaching methods, basically much of what society as a whole puts out since about the early 70's, I would respectfully disagree with your conclusions. What you're describing may be local but on a national trend it is not a mommy track, for lack of a better word, which is being affirmed.

More concerning to me is the prevailing attitude of "if you have a penis, you're wrong regardless". Similar but on the other side of the scale from the Ole South attitudes, this was by far the prevailing attitude in Washington State (western) where I grew up but the trend is also there nationally.

My biggest and only real problem with feminism is this anti male aspect. Until we have mutual respect for both gender's differences, instead of trying to jam things into a gender neutral strangeness, nothing constructive will result. It seems that 'feminists' in my lifetime have not attempted to advance the idea of mutual respect and enjoyment of differences so much as Female=Good, Male=Not Good but necessary until we work out the cloning thing.

As for the dating front in a general sense, I must also respectfully disagree with the inference of your statment about "men being the only ones to have problems". If a woman wants a man and has very little qualifications other than physical equipment and to be around sometimes, the nature of male/female interaction would pretty much assure she wouldn't have much of a problem. If a man were in the same boat, they'd have more trouble, significantly more, unless money was involved. I don't think you can deny that, whatever region of the US or perhaps the world for that matter. The devil is in the details. If you want something beyond someone that has complimentary body parts, then we're all in a mess regardless of gender. The part that makes this sad is apprantly all these guys think they want is that woman with complimentary body parts, and don't see that they want someone (and in reality, themselves, but let's not get too high on the psychoanalyst scale here) to let them be who they are and appreciate them. All of this because they're pitifully lonely.

Separate thought: A redhead from the south getting angry and having opinions....you know you're running afoul of I don't know how many stereotypes there....

9:30 AM  
Blogger Jennifer said...

There seem to be two definitions of feminism these days. I am the sort of feminist who believes "men and women should be equal in the eyes of the law, and while there are general differences between the sexes no individual should be forced into a given sex role." (I.e., most men like sports, but no man should be expected to.)

But there is, unfortunately, the "virtue is negated by a penis" school of feminism, and that definition seems to dominate these days. I was so happy when Andrea Dworkin died.

Debating whether men or women have it easier in regards to modern dating is, I think, the equivalent of arguing whether dogs or cats are smarter: "Dogs are smarter because they form bonds with their masters. No, cats are smarter because they aren't needy enough to form such bonds." "Well, dogs are smarter because they can learn cool tricks. No, cats are smarter because they know better than to care about your bullshit tricks." You can't really have a debate here because both sides have such different standards. It's like saying "Babe Ruth was a lousy athlete because he never scored any touchdowns" or "Shaq was a lousy athlete because he never hit a home run."

Where dating is concerned, a pretty woman certainly has some advantages and for awhile can ride on her beauty alone, if she wishes. But how long does beauty last, compared to attributes like intelligence or skills? And what of the women who don't qualify as pretty?

Furthermore, even those who fall into the "pretty" category have non-pretty days. If your main advantages are your intelligence or abilities, what uncontrollable temporary losses of advantage do you suffer equivalent to a pretty woman's "bad hair day" or "dear God this is one huge honkin' zit on the end of my nose?"

And that's not even getting into the whole issue of "subjectivity."

10:17 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Furthermore, even those who fall into the "pretty" category have non-pretty days.

This is a good example of the differences in perception. Men don't classify, at least not generally in my experience, "good" and "bad" days in terms of their looks. It's just not something that's done. I could look in the mirror and say "Damn, I need to drop X pounds" (or in my case, more probably XX pounds), but that's about it.

Fortunately, women are not so discerning of physical appearance in potential mates than men. Praise Buddha for small favors.

Nobody has it "easy" as such, and to a certain extent if we did there would be no fun to it. I am attracted to strong women, so you'll get no argument from me in that regard. I'm also able to handle a woman having an opinion, even if it is contrary to mine.

What I'm saying is that for people who percieve themselves as having very little options, and are willing to settle for about anything, women will have an easier time than men. What you're introducing, and perhaps missing in what I'm saying, is specific charactristics which the woman is looking for. My personal belief is that men are much more general in what they 'want'.

Take for instance your 'nonpretty' day. I can about gaurentee that the faults you are worried about are at the most about 1/25th the concern to about any given guy, and if they are more then that tells you something anyway. Men are visually attracted, yes, again the hardwiring is there, but we're much less picky in the details.

However if you as a woman are hung up on them as faults, that is much more of a problem, for both honestly. Therefore, I would submit that women have much more control over difficulties than men do. Picture any social situation, men are expected to be the ones competing for the woman, not the reverse. When women do compete for a man in a group situation, it's usually one or two singular, where with men competing for women it's on a much broader scale.

11:13 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Why do you care? As everyone has noted - it is only the losers who are rejecting American women. Let them be. Plenty of real men left for you, right?

As someone who has travelled extensively in Ukraine and Russia I see these losers all the time. I would say 98% are extremely wealthy (you have to have some money just to make the trip), healthy and attractive men.

I was recently in St Petersburg (Russia btw, not Florida) and had lunch with the CFO of a fortune 50 corporation. He was single in his early 40s. He was there visiting his Russian fiancee. They were working through the visa process.

He told me straight up - yes in the eyes of American women I am loser. The way I see it I simply outsourced my marriage!

Let these losers be, after all you are clearly winners.

5:14 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

And what of the women who don't qualify as pretty?

Ah! Belle Dame,

Whether old or young,
Plain or fair,
Any woman - every woman - is a rose
When she smiles at a man who loves her!

JLW

1:58 AM  

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